PaLM Conf Minutes 2023-October-11

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Ralf Herzog Jim McNulty
Kevin Schap Riki Merrick
Megumi Kondo Francesca Frexia
Rob Rae Gunter Haroske
Alessandro Sulis Andrea Pitkus
Hung Luu Jan Schutrups
Jim Harrison Stan Huff
Walter Sujansky Mary Kennedy
Raj Dash Marti Velezis

Next PaLM Meeting: November 8, 2023

Agenda Items:

  • Next IHE PaLM F2F location / dates
    • Send save the date for week of March 11-15
      • Ideally travel on Monday, meet Tue – Thu
  • Marti Velezis’s presentation on UDI is recorded:

IHE PaLM Marti Velezis PPT Passcode: %jP0B?^^

  • CP Application
    • Technical Framework updates – CPs
      • Alessandro has already applied several CPs.
      • He added comments on where the CP was applied.
      • CP-272 and CP273 – send these out for ballot.
        • We need to find the correct word document version – Alessandro will follow up and then send to Mary J for posting.
      • Also including the 2 CPs already listed as applied to V11 (which we don’t have that one published anywhere yet).
        • Alessandro fixed the typos in the footnote numbering for CP-263.
      • CP-267 question:
        • Fixing grammar in the sentence – since now we are only using CWE.
        • Need a title for Table 2.3.1-6 = Alternate Observation Identifiers.
    • DPIA CP-268
      • Needs updating by Raj.
      • Issue was that we were not considering the glass slide as a container, so we need to add in the Container group as RE.
      • Add a footnote to the added groups that they are pre-adopted from V2.9.
    • Next Step:
      • Alessandro will upload the finished documents for review by the CP submitters before sending to Mary Yungers.
      • Alessandro will mail to PaLM list and Riki will ensure it is forwarded to Ed Heierman and Xavier Gansel.
  • DPIA
    • Slides from Raj
    • Add full DICOM model metadata is next step.
    • How to capture stains etc.?
      • Additives (SPM-6) – using SCT substance hierarchy.
      • Should we use SPM-24 – specimen condition?
        • Not normally used this way.
      • Specimen Type (SPM-4) – for original specimen submitted.
      • No element in SPM about processing, so may be use OBX after SPM and using SCT codes from procedure hierarchy – use the same as in DICOM.
    • Jan Schutrups’s email to Raj: “As discussed at the ECDP, I find the DICOM Data model very unclear and try to understand it in relation to the DICOM standard and the DPIA profile.To understand the DICOM data model, the DPIA profile and to flesh it out, I did on personal title a small study comparing the current state of all scanner vendors compared to the DPIA profile and would like to ask for your opinion and help, where I do not understand the Profile and Standard.”
      • Invite DICOM folks (Kevin to let Markus know) and review Jan’s document next month.
    • How would you indicate an immunostaining?
      • In OBR-4 – since this is a will result in result values.
    • We need meta data for the scanner to tell it what is on the slide for creating the slide here (vs creating the order in the LIS – which is DPIO = this is similar to ordering a specimen (LDA = LAB-21?).
    • Could we have just the name of the stain like HER-2, or H&E – that should cover 90% of the cases, but would need more for these:
      • Different antibodies are interpreted in different ways.
      • Multi-plex stains – different elements at different hospitals (would have to have protocols shared) – I need to know the individual ABs that were combined.
    • LIS often only stores the simple name, does not have more details covered and also has no support for SCT coding – yet (but we can push for that).
  • DPIO
    • Use cases review from Raj’s slide set.
    • LAB-50 – OML^O33
      • Use SPM-6 with SCT codes or OBX after SPM to describe ethe work – that would then provide the info to the LIS to know what to put in DPIA.

From Chat:

  • Andrea Pitkus 9:28 AM
    • How are you supporting glass vs plastic containers, coverslips (materials), oil immersion at certain magnifications, etc.?
    • whether digital or manual?
  • Rajesh Dash 9:34 AM
    • Not supporting as it does not impact interpretation afaik ?
    • We do support magnification metadata
  • Gunter Haroske to Everyone 9:34 AM
    • Should we have a look for FHIR Specimen: there are additives both for collection and for processing, I.e. fixation and staining. Is it possible to model this in DPIA?
  • Rajesh Dash 9:35 AM
    • But we need to support in v2 also