Pharm Tech Minutes 2018.02.12

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Meeting details


Meeting room : Terra room
University of Oslo Gaustadalléen 23B 0373 Oslo

WebEx details:

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  • +33 17091 8646 France toll
  • +43 125 302 1542 Austria toll
  • +32 2894 8317 Belgium toll
  • +41 43456 9564 Switzerland toll

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Access code: 956 796 372

Meeting minutes

09:30 - 09:45 Welcome

  • Participants
    • Jacqueline Surugue
    • Stephane Spahni
    • Esther Peelen
    • Michael van der Zel
    • Leonidas Tzimis
    • Juergen Brandstaetter
    • Michael Tan
    • Jose Costa Teixeira
  • Review and Approve Agenda
    • change the program in the afternoon because Stephane has to attend IHE Europe call.
    • i.e. formulary and medication list
    • put the topics of CMPD on Tuesday afternoon.
  • Introduction round of new faces

  • Approval of minutes
    • minutes of 30 and 31 October 2017 in Bordeaux have been sent by Jose by email,
    • will be approved later this afternoon
  • Planning
    • Move this topic to end of Tuesday: Edit Domain Milestone dates [1]
    • Joint meeting with ISO TC215 and perhaps HL7 in May in Cologne.

10:00 -11:00 PHARM implementations MMA & UBP

  • Discussion on the progress of the profiles and on the tools required.
  • Questions about the tools of Aegis and Firely.
  • These are commercial companies that provide tools for testing and publishing FHIR profiles.
  • Aegis provides a testtool with which you can test XML and Json Tools. This is called Touchstone.
  • Firely provides a profile registry on Simplifier.
  • A big problem is that IHE cannot work fast enough to keep up with these commercial companies and HL7.
  • As IHE Pharmacy we should not invent new tools, but make use of tools which the FHIR audience is using.
  • IHE Pharmacy will add the official scenario's. Only use of these official scenario's will provide an IHE certificate.
  • The strength of IHE is in the maintenance of these standards.
  • We do need official IHE licences. Jose mentions that he has put this forward with Chris Carr.

11:00-11:15 Coffee break

11:15-12:45 Continuation of MMA and UBP

  • Esther presents a GS1 presentation from the Netherlands.
  • EMC promotes the use of the IHE profiles for example for UDI, medication and supply management.
    • Most of these efforts are related to European regulations, comparable with the US UDI.
    • These are also used for medical devices likes hips, pacemakers etc.
    • The data will be stored at EUDAMED. In some countries somw material is called a device, in other countries it is recognised as medication, for example glue for bones. The responsibility is at the manufacturer.
  • Among the vendors which are interested are Swisslog and Medeye. Swisslog is a big company and we need to make contact on International level.
  • The UDI will require the care institutions to register the use of devices on national level.
  • These registries are not on patient level. You can track the path thru the institutions.
  • Michael Z. mentions that medical records of patients are only stored for 15 years.
  • Leonidas mentions that prescriptions are stored for more than 2 years, in the most countries
  • Regulations differ in each country. In Switzerland the records of people starting a name with B have to kept for ever.
  • Iona is also active on the other continent with Medical devices. See here for the link:


  • Jose will maintain the contacts with Ioana Singureanu
  • In joint session Jose will bring up this topic, so that PCC has the opportunity to join.
  • We make a start with test scenario's:
    • The profiles make use of barcodes and not QR codes.
    • The scenario describes a storyboard where the device 1 does not used and goes to waste.
    • For the home nursing we describe a storyboard for twin brothers Jan and Jonas Buurman.
  • We need to involve IT vendors in the discussion about the profile.
  • GS1 is willing to make promotion and draw the attention of the IT vendors.

12:45 - 14:00 --- Lunch ---

14:00 - 15:00 Formulary

Medication Data Collection

  • Medication Data collection (Jose)
    • There are different flavours and depending on the scenario, you collect the data from different sources.
    • The requirement is now to collect this using FHIR resources.
    • The resources used are:
      • medication prescriptions
      • medication dispenses
      • medication administrations
      • medication statements.

The last resources is still under reconstruction. Joao is still working on the white paper. The Medmij program in the Netherlands is also working on profiles which are overlapping with Medication Data Collection, but this program has more restrictions in their profile, such as G-standards, Dutch patient-id's. etc. There is no current time line for this project within HL7.


The intention is to distribute information about medication to the users. CBG is also interested to provide the information for consumers. This topic belongs to the FHIR catalogue group, where they are discussing the various requirements such as the IDMP requirements. In France there is a research within GHT to analyze the situation in France. These are not centralized databases, but local sources.

  • Orders and Observations will submit a PSS on Health Product Pattern for FHIR.
  • Medication and Devices will be influenced by this discussion and harmonize with this pattern.
  • BR&R have initiated a project about IDMP, which is lead by Rik Smithies.
  • HL7 Pharmacy had a project about medication knowledge, which is now renamed to medication definition. (Jean Duteau).
  • Medication knowledge model FHIR resource

15:00 - 15:30 --- Supply ---

  • Quick Scan on the supply profile transactions.
  • There is a slide on the basic supply transactions order.
  • In Germany they have implemented this scenario in HL7v2, but v2 does not have transactions to report damage or additional exception reporting. The intention is to replace these transactions with FHIR,
  • Inquire with IT vendors for feedback on supply. Juergen has made contact with vendors in the publishing market. This could result in a strategic initiative where Healthcare and commercial market could collaborate together and share standards. These vendors will be present in The Hague and small team ( Jose, Esther, Marc, Michael Z.) could discuss a joint venture with them.

15:00 - 15:30 --- Coffee break ---

15:30 - 17:00 Other Committees

  • Feedback from HL7 WGM in New Orleans.
    • Most of the work is on FHIR resources.
    • The ONC in the USA in funding many projects for FHIR. Most of these have an objective to retrieve information on quality reporting.
  • Preparation of Meeting with ITI, PCC, QRPH
    • Michael T. will bring up the MMA profile.
    • Esther will present UBP.
    • Jose will present Supply.
  • IHE FHIR publications
    • Jose will present his vision on publishing.
    • The IHE Pharmacy material has to be found in the FHIR community thru
    • The Simplifier is only a registry that should point to the publication on an IHE platform.
    • We do require a license on Simplifier and an IHE platform.
  • HL7 Joint meeting in 2018 in Koeln, FHIR
    • The meeting will be organized by ISO TC215 and IHE Pharmacy at the premises of GS1.
    • Topics could be IDMP, FMD, IPS.
    • Should also invite Francois Marcary from PHAST, Christopher Gressner Dimdi.
  • Next F2F:
    • locations could be Vienna, Porto, Heraklion or Chania.
    • Juergen could attend Vienna. `
  • The F2F in autumn could be in Lyon at the hospital Lyon.
    • Jacqueline will send out a doodle pool for the date.
    • Proposal 29 and 30 of October and 22 and 23 of October as alternative.

17:15 - Adjourn

Pharmacy Planning Committee