Pharm Joint IHE-ISO-HL7-GS1 Minutes 2018.05.18

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Meeting Minutes

Joint meeting ISO, HL7, IHE, GS1

Friday, 18th May 2018, 9:00-16:00 CET

GS1 Knowledge Center
Maarweg 133
50825 Köln, Germany
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Webex Meeting number: 230 163 049


  • Christian Hay ( GS1)
  • Ursula Tschorn (ISO)
  • Silvia Reinhardt (GS1)
  • Esther Peelen (GS1)
  • Leonora Grandia ( Z-index)
  • Frits Elferink ( KNMP)
  • Scott Robertson ( Kaiser Permanente)
  • Melva Peters ( Jenaker Consulting)
  • Julian Sass ( Niederrhein University)
  • Christian Kravogel (SNV)
  • Christof Gessner ( Gematik)
  • Larry Callahan (FDA)
  • Vincent McCauley (HL7 Australia)
  • Robert van der Stichele ( University of Gent)
  • Rik Smithies (NProgram UK)
  • Wayne Kubick (
  • Panagiotis Thelonis ( EMA)
  • Michael van der Zel ( UMC Groningen)
  • Jose Costa Teixeira (IHE Pharmacy)
  • Marc Robberecht ( AGFA)
  • Michael Tan ( Nictiz)



Morning session

Medication Knowledge topic

HL7 pharmacy owns 5 FHIR resources. Originally 1 resource for medication. Now a more logical model for the clinical user, not for the scientific use. Since it is international it will not be bound to a fixed value set. This pattern is also expressed in a FHIR resource and you recognize it on the text above.

Here is the project scope statement of HL7 Medication Knowledge. Media:HL7_MedicationknowledgePSS.pdf

What level of granularity does the model support? Any level. IHE is also universal. Country specifics are expressed in volume 4.

Now there is a specific model which is called Medication knowledge resource, which is more extensive. The model can be used for different levels of granularity. You do not have to use all attributes of the FHIR Medication knowledge resource. For the IDMP representation you can use any subset of this model. This resource is not meant for transportation of information from the FDA to the pharmaceutical industry. Currently asking the participants to review the model and provide comments through the issue tracker ( GForge). There are about 50 issues at this moment. The ballot of this resource is planned for September. (Comments only ballot).

Here are the slides from Rik Smithies about the FHIR Medication Knowledge resource: Media:FHIR for IDMP.pdf

There is a difference to IDMP. According to Christoff the ID of the PHP should consist of 4 sources of codes that would create an algorithm to generate a code. The FHIR resource is meant to transport the information. <br\>

Coffee Break

Leonora explains about project 19256 Medicinal Product Dictionary. The dictionary is meant to be useful for the healthcare professional to use in daily practice. On the pharmaceutical level this could be on an aggregated level which leave out certain details of IDMP. The MPD is much less than the IDMP model. Ask Wayne to have the document from MPD. Christoffer wants to know which data can change under the same identifier of IDMP.

The next topic is about the Knowledge base. Clinical Decision Support to be balloted in September. This is related to drug related problems. Melva remarks that the CDS is not necessarily bound to IDMP, but Christian mentions that it is a strategy to build on IDMP. You don’t have to understand IDMP, but still you need the different product levels such as a PHP or MPD. IBM Deep Blue has also as learning systems, which are not fixed rules. How should that be aligned within this specifications. This set is a fixed collection of rules. HL7 has a new project Drug-drug clinical decision support ( not managed by HL7 Pharmacy). How to represent Drug – Drug using FHIR resource. HL7 Pharmacy asked for an update, but the group did not come to Köln. It may have links to the ISO project. This group has probably never heard of IDMP. It will be a guideline.

Here are the slides about the knowledge base from ISO WG6: Media:ISO_Knowledge_base_for_CDS.pdf

Here are the slides about medicinal product information from ISO WG6: Media:Medicinal_product_info.pdf

How do we share information between the SDO’s ? Suggestion to create a dropbox. Michael to create and invite people. We should be aware of the dependencies between the standards. How does the CDS project relate to the Arden Syntax? The ISO project on CDS exchange has had delay, but there is now a new project lead Tschin from Korea.

Afternoon Session

GS1 Healthcare experience

Demo from Sylvia Reinhardt about the GS1 Germany Healhtcare experience.





Tracking and Tracing Topic

The US has made an implementation guide for tracking and tracing. In Canada there is a project exchanging medication information using the FHIR resource bundle. The name of the FHIR resource Medication Statement ( the name ) might change over time.

Here are the slides from GS1 about tracking and tracing: Media:tracking_tracing.pdf

Discussion about UBP barcoding. Michael van der Zel created a demonstrator for the UBP profile in FHIR here <> and demonstrates the tool. The UBP profile is generic and can also be applied with RFID. Also looking towards the future, going into supply.. Suggestion to create a central website where we drop the 10 topics to share the information. Who will take the lead? Jose, Christoff, Michael van der Zel.

SDO Collaboration

To the outside world the distinction between IHE and HL7 is not always clear. The standards and the expertise seem to overlap and the organizations seem to compete with each other. ( Connectathon, FHIR Connectathon), while other definitions have a distinct meaning ( for example: profile). The IHE Board and the HL7 Board have met twice ( The Hague and Cologne) to discuss the collaboration between IHE and HL7. The session is a start to work out the collaboration between the SDO's. Gemini will be a pilot where this collaboration is being tested.

Updates from HL7:

HL7 Stuctured Docs has created their own templates in the past without involving HL7 Pharmacy. CDA templates have been reviewed by HL7 pharmacy. The templates have been adjusted to be more in line with HL7 Pharmacy. The message is for implementers ( EpSos, ELGA, Switzerland, IHE Pharmacy) to look at the new templates, when they start new projects. IPS has used these new CDA templates. Christoff mentions that this same group has looked at FHIR resources.

Pharmacy Technical Committee