Pharm Tech Minutes 2011.10.27

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  • Brandstätter, Jürgen (CodeWerk Software Services and Development GmbH, co-chair IHE)
  • De Jong, Tom (Nova Pro)
  • Demarmels, Marco (Lake Griffin, LLC)
  • Géraud, Thierry (CareFusion)
  • Hafner, Viktor (Linden Apotheke)
  • Letellier, Simon (EAHP, secretary)
  • Parisot, Charles (GE)
  • Peytchev, Vassil (Epic)
  • Rica, Charles (ASIP Santé)
  • Robberecht, Marc (Agfa Healthcare)
  • Rodrigues, Orlando (Glintt - Heatlhcare Solutions, S.A)
  • Tzimis, Leonidas (EAHP)
  • Zalunardo, Luca (Arsenal.IT)

F2F meeting Paris, Oct 4./5., 2011

Approval of minutes

Day 1 : IHE Pharmacy F2F Meeting
Day 2 : IHE Pharmacy & HL7 Pharmacy Joint Meeting

Workitems will be restarted based on the use cases (particular supplies for patients). Prepare workitems for the next cycle.

are added to the minutes on Vassil's proposal, to explain the agreement approved, following the presentation of the white paper for the realization, based on this, of work items for the next cycle.

With this addition, minutes are approved unanimously.

Summary on major decisions

  • 3 Whites Papers:
1) exceptional uses cases,
2) medication - documentation profile and
3) hospital medication supply chain
  • CP ballot for TF maintenance

Schedule for season 2011/2012 (Jürgen)

Draft schedule 2011-2012 version 2

Work items

  • add the usual cycle
  • getting a brief/detail proposal working through use-cases in volume 1 Information and then the details of the transactions , the content profiles working on volume 2 part and then carry enough time for each one.
  • So that's how the dates hasn't change from the original proposal.

Just they have original tasks for each date.


started from the back

With the deadline : august 31th 2012 to have updated profiles on the IHE website.

Send to IHE secretary 2 weeks before : 15th august

In fact, August 15th is the real deadline.

Before that all the (New) Work Items and the CPs are balloted and reviewed for Final Text.

2 weeks is the minimum time allowed to editors to integrate the CPs into the profiles.

The last Tcon of this cycle will be on August 15th. A dedicated Tcon is really better than email discussions to check all remarks.

  • Ballot phase : 30 days minimum.

It mean : start the ballot on July 14th. Not too bad to proceed during holiday time, The suggestion is to use July for the ballot, with no many TCon during this period.

Looking on the CPs will be done extensively before. So for all of us, who are involved in the process, it will be no problem to give the vote.

We can have one or more ballots. Multiple ballots :

Will it be possible to start a CPs ballot in June 28th ?
And New work items ballot in July ?

Allow more time in august to review and integrate the CPs. Start the Ballot as soon as it's ready.

  • Phase of the substantial works (Feb/June)

Start after the Feb 15th Tcon. The editors show up. Plan one Tcon in the middle to have a review. Need significant time available for this Tcon to go in deep in the technical topics, and make decisions. Need to be well prepared by each editor. That mean, Write questions ready in advance. One month later , it's a Tcon in the same manner. And then, there is the F2F meeting, traditionally at the Connectathon, in May. Quite late, but still works on the CPs.

  • Planning Phase

Officially start November 1st with the call for proposals. Ended November 30th, but maybe it will be extended. At the Dec. 15th Tcon, First review of received Work Items. Usually based on use cases, planning criteria. Discussion on the needs, on who will benefit of each proposal. On second review i'll be more technical : white paper ? profile ? new actors ? Final approval in February.

The separation of planning criteria and technical criteria is very useful to help focus the understanding of everybody of what is going to be done, and help when a thing is approved to really be able to start pretty much right away and keep working on work items.

  • F2F in the USA ?

Most urgent thing to decide. F2F meeting in the US or just delegates at the US Connectathon ? Grouping PHARM with PCC on HIMSS (because no product or showcase available for the moment)? Approach NCPDP for the Community pharmacy part at HL7 WG ? Will HMW have opportunities on the US market ? need advertising.

Most of the members of the group will not be able to come at a f2f meeting based in Chicago. Tom de Jong will perhaps be able to join : HL7 WG (in San Antonio) dates are close to US connectathon dates. Option 1 : f2f meeting in Chicago ==> 1 abstention / 9 against / 0 approval Option 2 : f2f meeting in Europe ==> 1 abstention / 0 against / 9 approval

Charles, Vassil ...: prepare a list of ideas that make sense for marketing and presentation of IHE Pharmacy


  • In February : match with the ITI / QRPH / PCC meeting in Paris ?

Find one overlapping day ? In parallel ? Diner ?

Difficult it's Monday 6 to Friday 10 February, the whole week.

  • Somewhere else ?

Porto ? Venice ?

Decision at the next Tcon

Status overview

Change proposals

CP ballot #1 – Status (Jürgen)

Quorum ? 50% of the membership, according to the roster Ana prepare.

Already registered : Phast, CodeWerk, EAHP, Carefusion, GE

CP for CMPD to incorporate XDW (Luca, Arianna, Jürgen)

Workflow in CMPD with PADV

And test a second scenario "without PADV", quite easy.

Questions to be discussed:
Basic workflow

Change proposal to CMPD

a new slide to show the entire workflow like it stated right now.

The workflow is implicitly a combination of the CMPD profile itself and the PADV profile.

Decision to make a second scenario in the CMPD without a pharmaceutical adviser actor.

Not in the profile yet.

Just to kind of tasks : prescription and dispensation.

It's quite easy.

One special query : Pharm-1 "Find prescriptions for dispense".

Scenario 2 : already in the profile.

With the pharmaceutical adviser.

Currently in the profile :

After ordering, the next task is "validation" with condition : always.

The validation have 3 possible outcomes :

  • Dispense with code OK or Change
  • Ordering with code refuse
  • stop with code Cancel

The Code OK or Change is missing in Pharm-1, Query : FindPrescriptionForDispense ==> Will be added to the profile.

There are problems in details in this scenario :

a dedicated Tcon is scheduled on Monday to discuss open points.

Example : is it OK that a refused item is not reordered ? New ID, new prescription ?

  • Shall it be required mandatory as the “minimum workflow” in the profile?
  • Shall we make a workflow document per prescription or one per prescription item?======

Because the prescription item is the real thing we are working with.

Prescription items are dispensed.

The prescription is only the container.

Does it make sense to have the workflow document on the prescription ?

Or on each prescription items ?

  • Shall we use “in progress” states or leave all tasks as “born completed”?

“born completed” is more easier to handle. Shall consider to make it easier for skipping the "in progress" state.

All this questions will be discussed in details and be decided at the Tcon on Monday.

Invitation to the WebEx will be sent soon.

Finish the CP will be a very good signal to the rest of the IHE community , because CMPD will be the first profile to have the XDW profile incorporated.

The TCon on this topic will be at Monday, Oct 31., 2011, 16:00 – 17:30 (CET, Vienna, Amsterdam, Paris time)


Medication Documentation

Marco : Need to collect use cases to justify this work and be able to continue.

What was the input from the HL7 Pharmacy group at the last F2F meeting ?

Jürgen : For this workpackage, the first problem is to find a new workpackage leader (because this last weeks, Jose reduce dramatically his involvement -- heard from Agfa --) This point must be decided by the whole medication Documentation working group.

Vassil : One thing from Paris is that the usecases are in the white paper already. The thing that can be done is to put them to the front, incorporate its at the beginning of the white paper to get the flow from the use cases into the rest of the information. It's already there.

Use-case: Community – Hospital, Step 1

Orlando : No change in the situation.

HMW Exceptional cases, Step 1

Marc : CP and it's a work in progress, will be released next week.

CMPD Exceptional cases, Step 1

Jürgen : Will be prepared for the next season.

Supply chain

Who is the workpackage leader ? Simon ?

Simon : Thierry forward to Jose and me a document with new use cases, that will be incorporated to the white paper.

Marco : was approached by Christian Hay (IHE Switzerland and GS1) and will write a specific chapter about barcodes and GS1 stuff for the WP.

Simon : Christian is OK to participate on the supply chain workflows.

Vassil : The supply chain WP , is it going to be a new work item ? It will be good to get the use cases into a proposal form to follow the cycle.

Jürgen : need to convert the work done to something for the next season. We are restarting the planning phase and it would be a new item.

Work items

Perfusion administration / PCD Alignment

Something left by Jose. Followed by Marc, Vassil and Jürgen

After discussion with IHE PCD people, in a Tcon, it was very good.

Nice separation between Pharmacy and PCD domains. On the left side, HMW profile; on the right side, DEC and IPEC profiles. The decision made was 'Grouping' 2 actors of PCD with the Medication Administration Informer. We have to do mapping of the information contained in the messages exchanged, PHARM-1 and PHARM-3. Vassil and Marc have already start this work : message from pump are like a RGV message (HL7v2). Messages are different but essential data are available.

It's clear it's a CP for the HMW profile, not a white paper. Vassil : The PCD domain has approved a white paper project on their development cycle. And this white paper will include the data of Marc's spreadsheet. Will describe how the grouping do work. The question of a CP for the HMW profile will come after the investigation on grouping the actors. PCD has taken the lead to organize teleconferences for this white paper. Proposal : let PCD take the lead.

Jürgen : we need a work item on this for the next cycle.

Glossary work item

From Jose : a glossary already exist in HMW.

Marco : details are on the mailing list.

Work is in progress with HL7 (Tom).

  • template for brief proposal and Work item will be sent to the group.
  • Next Tcon : November 17th 12.00-13.30 CET